Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:02:18 -1000 From: griebeno@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kai Griebenow) Message-Id: <45267q$ks7@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Subject: Re: Which spars for 10ft (3 meter) Ginki? Hi, I made a 3 meter Genki about 5 years ago in Germany, therefore can only give the dimensions exactly in mm. (1 inch = 25.4 mm). For the cross-spar I used 8 mm carbon-fiber, for the vertical spars 6 mm. My kite has only two keels and vertical spars. Most people - if I remember correctly - use three ceels and vertical spars. I have one furrule in the center of the cross-spar, external and internal. Hope it helps Tako Genki and greetings to Nopp ;-). Kai http://web.mit.edu/griebeno/www/kites.html = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:16:03 -1000 From: bchilders@aol.com (BChilders) Message-Id: <451huj$rhc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Which spars for 10ft (3 meter) Ginki? What size glass fiber for horizontal and verticals? Is there anything to be gained in putting AFC type rods in this kite? If so, what size carbon fiber rods? Thanks, Buck Childers bchilders@aol.com bchilder@ldpd.gtd.eds.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:40:11 -1000 From: lord@eskimo.com (David Lord) Message-Id: Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever Subject: Re: Which spars for 10ft (3 meter) Ginki? In article <451huj$rhc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> bchilders@aol.com (BChilders) writes: >Xref: eskimo rec.kites:20154 >Path: >eskimo!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.mega >web.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >From: bchilders@aol.com (BChilders) >Newsgroups: rec.kites >Subject: Which spars for 10ft (3 meter) Ginki? >Date: 5 Oct 1995 17:16:03 -0400 >Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) >Lines: 11 >Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com >Message-ID: <451huj$rhc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> >Reply-To: bchilders@aol.com (BChilders) >NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com >What size glass fiber for horizontal and verticals? >Is there anything to be gained in putting AFC type rods in this kite? If >so, what size carbon fiber rods? >Thanks, >Buck Childers >bchilders@aol.com >bchilder@ldpd.gtd.eds.com Buck If you have a smaller or larger Genki that you feel is sparred correctly, then you can go to my web page and use the spar chart there to determine the proper size spars for a 10 footer. There are examples of how to use the chart. If you need help e-mail me. lord@eskimo.com Dave Lord Dave Lord lord@eskimo.com check out http://mail.eskimo.com/~lord = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:25:38 -1000 From: crowell@teleport.com (Carl Crowell) Message-Id: Organization: Kites By Carl Crowell Subject: Re: Which spars for 10ft (3 meter) Ginki? In my 104" Wolf genki i use a pair of 54" prospars comps (8-9 mm). The vert spars are 1580 or 1800 depending on what I have around. Standoffs are 080 carbon. carl ____________________________________________________________________ email: ccrowell@willamette.edu http://www.willamette.edu/~ccrowell ____________________________________________________________________ The only true freedom is the freedom from the heart, freedom from passion. I am content in the cell of my mind. When the worms of decay eat though my skull and set me free, will I then be so content? ____________________________________________________________________ Copyright 1995, Carl Crowell = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 04:04:03 -1000 From: mgraves@leadingedg.win.net (Michael Graves) Message-Id: <2394@leadingedg.win.net> Subject: Re: Which spars for 10ft (3 meter) Ginki? In article <45267q$ks7@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, Kai Griebenow (griebeno@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) writes: > >Hi, > >I made a 3 meter Genki about 5 years ago in Germany, therefore can only >give the dimensions exactly in mm. (1 inch = 25.4 mm). For the cross-spar >I used 8 mm carbon-fiber, for the vertical spars 6 mm. My kite has only >two keels and vertical spars. Most people - if I remember correctly - use >three ceels and vertical spars. I have one furrule in the center of the >cross-spar, external and internal. What did you use for the diagonal spars in the wings? I have seen a couple of cases where these were too light. My current, though incomplete, understanding is that as the wind drops the wings needs to "tail down" a bit, effectively altering the kites angle of attack. With diagonals that are too light they can stay pinned back too much. Michael Graves -- Michael Graves mgraves@leadingedg.win.net Leading Edge Productions http://www.interlog.com/~lepkites Brampton, Ontario, Canada "Bear in mind, just bears in mind." phone(905)456-9494 fax (905)456-9493 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:46:09 -1000 From: griebeno@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kai Griebenow) Message-Id: <45cmph$29u@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Subject: Re: Which spars for 10ft (3 meter) Ginki? Hi Michael (and all interested in the Genki), the diagonal spars in the 3 m Genki and the 6 m Genki I have both are 6 mm carbon fiber. I must admit I didn't care too much at that time, but it is likely that you are right. My 3 m Genki is the absolut best light-wind kite I ever made! And that was at the beginning of my kitemaking experience some 5 years ago. I guess you are right, the weight alters the flying angle in low winds. I tried later other spars, or even no spars, and it never was flying better than with the (relatively heavy for their function) 6 mm spars. By the way, I made a mistake (or it was the building plan) in that Genki. My diagonal spars start really at the top and not there where the cross-spar is. In consequence, by observing other Genkis later, I realized that the whole sail aerodynamik is drastically altered by that. The kink, you observe in other Genkis from the cross-spar to the sail-tips, isn't really present. The whole sail bows up from the top. This seems to reduce the stability but improves the light-wind abilities in my Genki compared to others. In some kite-festivals this Genki was pretty much the only thing flying (excepty for some Fighter-kites). But I never investigated this really consequently. Actually this discussion and thinking about it reminded me on the facts :-). Hope it helps. Hope it doesn't lead to aerodynamic discussions ;-). Happy Flying Kai P.S. Sometimes mistakes can actually lead to something good and new ;-). = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 21:18:03 -1000 From: Rodger Duffett Message-Id: <45d6nb$2ma@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> Organization: UCT Subject: Re: Which spars for 10ft (3 meter) Ginki? Hi All! I have recently completed a 3m genki which I sparred in 6mm carbon for baoth the cross spar and the vertical spars. I used 4mm soldid carbon for the diagonal spreaders. I popped in at Vlieger Op on my recent trip to Europe to get spars for a 2m Rok (10mm carbon for the spine, 8mm carbon for the spreaders) that I had made and to get spars for the Genki. I thought that 6mm was way too floppy over 3m. I spoke to Nop and showed him the kite. He said that 6mm was fine and advised adding a bow line across the back of the kite from tip to tip of the cross spar to give about 300mm of bow at the centre of the kite. This greatly improves low wind stability. My kite flies very well, nice high angle and is good for lifting teddy bears! Cheerio -- __________________________________________________________________ Rodger Duffett Internet Address: rodger@ray.uct.ac.za Dept. Radiation Oncology Telephone : +2721 404 3135 Radiobiology Section University of Cape Town Groote Schuur Hospital South Africa = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 02:04:07 -1000 From: foiler21@aol.com (Foiler21) Message-Id: <45dnfn$eqc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Which spars for 10ft (3 meter) Ginki? As far as Genki spars go:- In Tulsa, OK., in the Comprehensive Kitemaking Competition during the A.K.A. Convention I flew a Genki with a 12 foot span ( 3.66 m ). I consider these kites to be best in light and gentle breezes, with a high angle of flight and light pull. However on the day of competition it was blowing a strong and variable 15 - 18 m.p.h., with gusts possibly over 20 mph. Somehow the kite and the spars survived, though I held my breath a couple of times ! Configuration :- Two vertical spars; A.F.C. 2300 Cross spar; Prospar 19-352 Wing diagonals; A.F.C. 1880 The two joints in the cross spar were at each vertical, and the spar was fabric sleeved to the sail for its whole span, except for 4 " at the outer ends and at the vertical spars where the joints were. It was also tied to the verticals. The kite did some scary bends backwards, but did complete the full 5 minutes of required flight time. Hope that this helps, Stretch = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =