From: mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis) Subject: The Tracer, and a possible problem with the funky sail. Message-ID: Date: 17 Sep 92 02:56:10 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana (BTW, I _swear_ I'm not obsessed with this kite, I just have lots of questions about it.) I recently learned a bit more about sail design, (Will I make my own kite? Answer: Someday, really!) Anyway, the tracer has a rather interesting sail pattern that I think could cause problems. Imagine, if you will, lines drawn from the right lower wingtip to several approx. equally spaced points on the _left_ leading edge. Yes, that's right, the pattern is non-symmetrical. This seems to lead me to conclude that stretching of the sail will be very bad, as it will stretch in an odd and non-aerodynamic way. Has anyone had problems with this? My friends Tracer is still new, and IMHO is a pretty nice kite. (Curious as ever,) _________________ Mike Gebis /\ /\ \ re\/olution / m-gebis@uiuc.edu OR / \ / \ \ /^\ / mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu / uoi1nlo/\aj \ \/ \/ I can fly backwards-can you? ---------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Subject: Re: The Tracer, and a possible problem with the funky sail. Message-ID: <15491@umd5.umd.edu> Date: 17 Sep 92 04:24:42 GMT Organization: University of Maryland at College Park In article mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis) writes: >(BTW, I _swear_ I'm not obsessed with this kite, I just have lots of questions >about it.) That's okay. I verge on being obsessed with the Tracer and never tire of talking about it. Did you see my original "I used to hate the Tracer but this is why I love it" post of a few months back? Most of it got sucked into the Reviews FAQ (it's actually the longest review in there) but I don't recall if that's the entire thing. Anyway... >I recently learned a bit more about sail design, (Will I make my own kite? >Answer: Someday, really!) Anyway, the tracer has a rather interesting >sail pattern that I think could cause problems. Imagine, if you will, >lines drawn from the right lower wingtip to several approx. equally spaced >points on the _left_ leading edge. Yes, that's right, the pattern is >non-symmetrical. This seems to lead me to conclude that stretching of the >sail will be very bad, as it will stretch in an odd and non-aerodynamic >way. Who said sails had to be symmetrical? Theoretically, I suppose that the stretching may differ from side to side just because of the seams, but if the bias of the fabric is consistent, this shouldn't be *too* much of a problem. In fact, even if the bias _isn't_ consistent, it might not be too much of a problem. Read on! The Tracer is one of those kites (as is the Pro) which ages extremely well-- in fact, the longer you fly it, the better it gets. I fly a custom (read: knocked-off by my own two little hands) Tracer comprised of 22 randomly shaped panels. I paid absolutely no attention to the bias of the fabric, nor to any sort of symmetry between the two sides of the kite. It's been my primary kite since the 3rd week of June, and I suspect it's got at least 100 hours in the air--what I would consider rather well broken-in. There's been some definite stretching in the sail--I've had to shorten the tensioning lines at the wing tips a few a times, and had the spine pop out of the nose once--I had to tighten the tensioning line at the center to about 1/2" shorter. This sort of stretching is to be expected, even with a non-Carrington sail. With an AFC 2400 frame, I've flown my Tracer in winds over 20mph (even broke 150# spectra one day!) The kite flies better than ever. The low end of its wind range has not diminished. Recently, my Tracer has started to do a bit of skating, which came as a complete surprise. So I guess what I'm telling you is that based on some conventional kite craft ideas, the Tracer is something of a no-no. But it works! Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true | | | Time for you to / Be who you are." | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | --Happy Rhodes | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Subject: Re: The Tracer, and a possible problem with the funky sail. Message-ID: <15566@umd5.umd.edu> Date: 20 Sep 92 19:20:20 GMT Organization: University of Maryland at College Park In article mjg51721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael James Gebis) writes: >Yes, that's right, the pattern is >non-symmetrical. This seems to lead me to conclude that stretching of the >sail will be very bad, as it will stretch in an odd and non-aerodynamic >way. Whoops. I've already written one fairly lengthy response to this question, and I stand by what I said--that the Tracer does not *suffer* from an assymetrical sail, nor does heavy use cause problems--if anything, the Tracer improves with age. Having said that, let me relate to you some details from a conversation I had with TC Powers today. For those who don't know: TC is a local guy who started sewing kites a couple of years ago. Things got a bit out of hand, he went out and blew $1500 or so on a Bernina computerized machine, and eventually started working with/for Dean Jordan of Jordanaire kites after moving to Florida. TC had some input into the design of the Pro, and did a lot of the sewing for those high-end kites, especially a lot of the custom sails. About 5 months ago, TC left Jordanaire, bummed around for a while, then moved to Cincinatti for 3 months. He just showed up in DC today, and, in a typically TC move, went out to fly before worrying about finding somewhere to stay. What this has to do with the Tracer: TC tells me that he's now working for Mike Simmons on the Tracer. He's been sewing a bunch of custom sails for Mike, and working out a lot of new design features to improve the kite. This includes a completely new bias profiling both on the sail *and* on a number of new panels. In addition, the sail will have new graphics. TC also hinted to me about a change in the trailing edge tensioning line. He looked at my Tracer and asked if I only had the one line in the trailing edge. He then said that he couldn't reveal anything, but strongly suggested I take a look at one of his new Tracers while I'm at SunFest this week. I'm unclear as to what the current status of the Tracer is. The modifications to just the sail suggest a longer construction time then on the original Tracer. I don't know if there will be a "pro" version of the Tracer, or if all Tracers will have these changes, or whatever. I'll be sure to mention anything I find out about this week. You heard it here first! ;-) Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true | | | Time for you to / Be who you are." | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | --Happy Rhodes | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =