Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 12:34:35 -1000 From: Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org Message-Id: <1995Mar6.223435.5467@icare.fdn.org> Organization: Individual - Levallois, France. Subject: Shall we split rec.kites ? Hi Kiters We had a gread opportunity to read a long long thread about advertising, merchandising and so on. I am **personally** glad to see some post coming >From Dodd, even if he is distributing kites in the US, even if is selling kites videos. I am happy too when I am reading some ads or announces from people who want to sell their kites, used or not. I am **very** interrested on reading kites reviews, and glad to share my experience when writing my own kite reviews (two will follow in a near future ;-). BUT, I have just a little time and money, I can not use FTP or WWW and I hate FTPmail, so unuseful (sorry for those who maintain these archives) This is the reason why I suggest you to begin a new thread regarding the opportunity to extend or lovely hierarchy to rec.kites.reviews&ads and rec.kites.merchandising. rec.kites.mono, rec.kites.buggy and rec.kites.dual would be unreasonable to me, but why not ? To protect this kind of law, we can think about moderating those newsgroups. All those who complains about the commercial pollution just have to avoid and unsubscribe to this sources of useful informations. There is a nettiquette, and this is not some pages from KitesLines or Drachen Magasin I want to read on my screen. But those newspapers are coming so slooow, so rarely compared with electronic mags. Feelings about this ? --------------------------- Bruno Brottier 37 rue Chaptal 92300 LEVALLOIS PERRET - FRANCE E-mail: Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org -- [NeXTmail] --------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 04:29:11 -1000 From: higginson@pfc.mit.edu (Wavey Davey) Message-Id: Organization: MIT Plasma Fusion Center Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? In article <1995Mar6.223435.5467@icare.fdn.org>, Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org wrote: > Hi Kiters > > This is the reason why I suggest you to begin a new thread regarding the > opportunity to extend or lovely hierarchy to rec.kites.reviews&ads and > rec.kites.merchandising. > rec.kites.mono, rec.kites.buggy and rec.kites.dual would be unreasonable > to me, but why not ? To protect this kind of law, we can think about > moderating those newsgroups. > > Feelings about this ? > Bruno, I believe I suggested something similar in the earlier advertising thread and got zero response. I can only asume that people aren't interested. Dave -- Dave Higginson higginson@pfc.mit.edu = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 08:24:36 -1000 From: sasaki@netope.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <3ji8d4$h42@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? In article <1995Mar6.223435.5467@icare.fdn.org>, Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org wrote: > This is the reason why I suggest you to begin a new thread regarding the > opportunity to extend or lovely hierarchy to rec.kites.reviews&ads and > rec.kites.merchandising. > rec.kites.mono, rec.kites.buggy and rec.kites.dual would be unreasonable > to me, but why not ? To protect this kind of law, we can think about > moderating those newsgroups. In general, I don't think that this is a good idea. The traffic in rec.kites is low enough that most folks can still afford (money as well as time) to get all of the notes. If the amount of traffic does increase, then this should be re-examined. I'm also not in favor of moderating. Besides, who has the time to moderate rec.kites? -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@harvard.edu Network Services Division 90 Melrose Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Arlington, MA 02174 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-646-1925 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 12:32:41 -1000 From: Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org Message-Id: <1995Mar7.223241.8162@icare.fdn.org> Organization: Individual - Levallois, France. Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? In article <3ji8d4$h42@netope.harvard.edu> sasaki@netope.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: > > I'm also not in favor of moderating. Besides, who has the time to > moderate rec.kites? Marty, I am not thinking about moderating rec.kites, but just rec.kites.reviews. Moderating 30-40 post a day is a full-time job, but there is only one commercial info per week. This is easy to moderate. Bert post some infos about new tapered Skyshark spars. Is it info or advertising ? Should he wrote in reck.kites or rec.kites.review ? I would like to have answers to those questions, because I want to feel really free when posting, and I want Bert and all independant reviewers to feel free to. By this way, we will probably have more post ala "I better fly a Tracer because blablabla" or "My MEFM sucks because Blahblahblah", even if real experience is the most important. The european market is the mean target for American builders/resellers... but we would like to know what is b***sh**, and what is good to ask for, and we want to be more experienced. Just my 2cts Bruno --------------------------- Bruno Brottier 37 rue Chaptal 92300 LEVALLOIS PERRET - FRANCE E-mail: Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org -- [NeXTmail] --------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 08:35:28 -1000 From: sasaki@netopd.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <3jktdg$kqs@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard OIT Network Services Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? In article <1995Mar7.223241.8162@icare.fdn.org>, Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org writes: |>I am not thinking about moderating rec.kites, but just rec.kites.reviews. |>Moderating 30-40 post a day is a full-time job, but there is only one |>commercial info per week. If there are only a few messages a month, it isn't worth setting up a separate news group for this. Maybe we should start putting some kind of key into the subject line of the postings. In rec.models.rc, put "car", "air", "boat", etc into the subject line so that folks who don't want to bother reading certain messages. While this doesn't help those who have to download things before they see them, others can just skip things they don't want to see. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 08:48:07 -1000 From: shashone@ix.netcom.com (Linda Watt) Message-Id: <3jku57$htc@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> Organization: Netcom Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? In <1995Mar7.223241.8162@icare.fdn.org> Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org writes: > >In article <3ji8d4$h42@netope.harvard.edu> sasaki@netope.harvard.edu >(Marty Sasaki) writes: >> >> I'm also not in favor of moderating. Besides, who has the time to >> moderate rec.kites? > >Marty, > >I am not thinking about moderating rec.kites, but just rec.kites.reviews. >Moderating 30-40 post a day is a full-time job, but there is only one >commercial info per week. This is easy to moderate. Bert post some infos >about new tapered Skyshark spars. Is it info or advertising ? Should he >wrote in reck.kites or rec.kites.review ? I would like to have answers to >those questions, because I want to feel really free when posting, and I >want Bert and all independant reviewers to feel free to. By this way, we >will probably have more post ala "I better fly a Tracer because blablabla" >or "My MEFM sucks because Blahblahblah", even if real experience is the >most important. >The european market is the mean target for American builders/resellers... >but we would like to know what is b***sh**, and what is good to ask for, >and we want to be more experienced. >Just my 2cts > >Bruno > >--------------------------- >Bruno Brottier >37 rue Chaptal >92300 LEVALLOIS PERRET - FRANCE >E-mail: Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org -- [NeXTmail] >--------------------------- > The best thing to ask for is an easy question! Can I try it? Anyone who doesn't let you try it before you buy it is not really supporting NEW FLIERS. Talk doesn't fly...kites fly! The reason that some of the best flying kites in the world keep being made is because they bring joy and awe and make the fliers want to keep flying. All the slick bells and whistles in the world...all the advertising claims and all the shuck and jive will never make a poor kite great while a great kite will always make smiles and converts! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 20:24:36 -1000 From: davebird1@aol.com (DaveBird1) Message-Id: <3jm6v4$2hb@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? Hi folx. I'm new to rec.kites. I've just started reading this thread about splitting rec.kites, and now there's mention of another list called rec.kites.reviews. What's the difference? How many kite-related lists are there (and how many do I have to subscrive to?) Like I said, I've just begun regular reading (although I have visited the archive via the World Wide Web), so I don't know much about the traffic. I can tell you that I belong to The Bottom Line, a mailing list of bass players on the 'net. It's more or less unmoderated (there's a list manager of course, who makes message digests), but I can tell you we review products all the time. We also have quite a few manufacturers on the list. They answer questions and offer technical help when asked, but so far all have been very polite about keeping advertising off the list. However, if they have a new product, no one gets too uptight if they let us know. Anyway, this is just a newbie's impression here. I just don't want to have to subscribe to a lot of newsgroups to get info on kites. I'd rather be flying or playing. Dave Alfano DaveBird1@aol.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 10:28:53 -1000 From: skyvis@shell.portal.com (Richard P Cornwell) Message-Id: <3jnoe5$2d5@news1.shell> Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data) Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org wrote: : Hi Kiters : We had a gread opportunity to read a long long thread about advertising, : merchandising and so on. I am **personally** glad to see some post coming : from Dodd, even if he is distributing kites in the US, even if is selling : kites videos. I am happy too when I am reading some ads or announces from : people who want to sell their kites, used or not. I am **very** : interrested on reading kites reviews, and glad to share my experience when : writing my own kite reviews (two will follow in a near future ;-). : BUT, I have just a little time and money, I can not use FTP or WWW and I : hate FTPmail, so unuseful (sorry for those who maintain these archives) I like to see announcements of new products, but I think announcing every new kite would be too much. If you have something totally new that will revolitionise the kiting world post a very brief anouncment with a pointer for more information. Examples: New Rods, New video (not festival video), maybe new fittings. No sale announcments (dealer going out of business is ok) or prices. I also don't have access to WWW :-(, and don't have the time to go though tons of ads. I currently don't kill any articles in r.k and I don't want to have to start. : This is the reason why I suggest you to begin a new thread regarding the : opportunity to extend or lovely hierarchy to rec.kites.reviews&ads and : rec.kites.merchandising. : rec.kites.mono, rec.kites.buggy and rec.kites.dual would be unreasonable : to me, but why not ? To protect this kind of law, we can think about : moderating those newsgroups. NO TO MODERATING. If you split rec.kites, make a rec.kites.marketplace, or rec.kites.forsale (new and used products). This way when someone wants a new kite he/she could look in the news group. But maybe someone my not be looking and on seeing a review of a new kite my decide to not pay the rent or something to get a new kite :-). Rich ========================================================================== Richard & Kim Cornwell skyvis@shell.portal.com Sky Vision Kites (408) 733-9313 415-112 No. Mary Av. Suite 111 http://www.portal.com/~skyvis Sunnyvale, CA 94086 Check out our new stuff and Spring Sale. ========================================================================== = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 09:40:19 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: <3jnlj3$qbn@southern.co.nz> Organization: Southern InterNet Services Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org wrote: : Hi Kiters : This is the reason why I suggest you to begin a new thread regarding the : opportunity to extend or lovely hierarchy to rec.kites.reviews&ads and : rec.kites.merchandising. : rec.kites.mono, rec.kites.buggy and rec.kites.dual would be unreasonable : to me, but why not ? To protect this kind of law, we can think about : moderating those newsgroups. : Feelings about this ? NO, no no no no ! We already have 10,000 + newsgroups who needs anymore ? >From what I have seen of newsgroup splitting and subdivision you just get more and more subgroups to read each day and numerous requests for further subgroups to cover every specialist branch of the main subject. Leave rec.kites alone ! Free and unmoderated. I am feeling militant at present about people messing up good newsgroups :-) Bye, = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 18:45:44 -1000 From: drumurphy@aol.com (DruMurphy) Message-Id: <3jolho$b7v@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? Hi- I,ve only caught the edge of this discussion about "commercial polution" but I can't get the point - the market place is where we get most of our materials, kite designs, and is where some of the most industrious and creative people in the kite community make a living so they can go on doing the cool stuff they do - I was at the World Ice Sailing Championship in Madison Wi last month and the sky was full of beautiful big traction kites - all the result of "commercial polution". The inovations I saw wouldn't be available to us all if someone couldn't make a little $$ along the way - When I'm flying on the beach here in Chicago everyone asks 1) is it hard to do? 2) how much $$ and 3) where can I get one. We should all do as much as we can to support everyone trying to make a go of a kite oriented livelyhood - The more people flying the better!! The more designs and products the better!! Let folks sell their stuff - if it's garbage nobody will buy it and they won't last - I want to see the newest ideas and innovations and like to know where they are available - Some great stuff might pop up if it is easier for the little guy to market it. I build kites (for my own use), but I've also bought a lot more than I've built - I've gotten hundreds of wonderful hours use from my commercially produced kites - the idea that kiting and money shouldn't cross paths is just plain nuts - If this is mostly Internet snobbery, well the future keeps comin' at you like it or not - McGhee = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 22:44:41 -1000 From: peterk@wfw.wtb.tue.nl (Peter Kruijt) Message-Id: <3jp3hp$hq9@tuegate.tue.nl> Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org wrote: : Hi Kiters : This is the reason why I suggest you to begin a new thread regarding the : opportunity to extend or lovely hierarchy to rec.kites.reviews&ads and : rec.kites.merchandising. : rec.kites.mono, rec.kites.buggy and rec.kites.dual would be unreasonable : to me, but why not ? To protect this kind of law, we can think about : moderating those newsgroups. : Feelings about this ? Don't do it. Traffic on this newsgroup isn't heavy. Neither there seems to be any abuse of commercial advertisements for this group to be moderated. Articles most of the time are short, so why moderate. Moderating a newsgroup seems to take a lot of time (I learned from comp.text.tex where a split-up was also discussed last weeks). By the way, I like to see advertisements once in a while; it's a pitty that most of them are american based. The best way to distinguish between advertisements and `normal' articles would be to put ``ADVERTISEMENT:'' in the subject line, so that readers who don't want read them can skip them. Just my $0.02 worth (it's getting cheaper with the fall of the dollar ;-) -- Peter Kruijt (peterk@wfw.wtb.tue.nl) Eindhoven University of Technology Department of Mechanical Engineering PO Box 513 5600 MB Eindhoven = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 23:48:12 -1000 From: crowell@teleport.com (Carl Crowell) Message-Id: Organization: Kites By Carl Crowell Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? (sorry... but I have gotten complains on not posting recently.. so here goes) The following groups are clearly needed for rec.kites to expand into: rec.kites.dualline rec.kites.single rec.kites.fighter rec.kites.soft rec.kites.quad rec.kites.quad.revclone rec.kites.copyright rec.kites.patent.law rec.kites.faq.general rec.kites.faq.stunt rec.kites.faq.reviews rec.kites.faq.kap rec.kites.faq.festival rec.kites.ojsimpson.fan rec.kites.tonyaharding.fan rec.kites.pointless.art rec.kites.newnewsgroups and at least thirty others come to mind... I will e submiting request today... look for them to clog bandwidth even as you read this. carl who has is own news groups.... rec.kites.carl rec.kites.osfm carl ___________________________________________________ email: crowell@kite.com FTP: ftp.teleport.com/pub/users/crowell WWW: http://www.teleport.com/~crowell Kites By Carl Crowell - O.S.F.M. World Headquarters = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 20:36:34 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? >The following groups are clearly needed for rec.kites to expand into: >rec.kites.dualline >rec.kites.single >rec.kites.fighter >rec.kites.soft >rec.kites.quad >rec.kites.quad.revclone >rec.kites.copyright >rec.kites.patent.law >rec.kites.faq.general >rec.kites.faq.stunt >rec.kites.faq.reviews >rec.kites.faq.kap >rec.kites.faq.festival >rec.kites.ojsimpson.fan >rec.kites.tonyaharding.fan >rec.kites.pointless.art >rec.kites.newnewsgroups >rec.kites.carl >rec.kites.osfm I would have thought that you would know better than this Carl. Since are a "rec" group, we need to have a discussion and a call for votes for each group. Also, you seem to have overlooked: rec.kites.administration rec.kites.aka rec.kites.anagrams rec.kites.andrew rec.kites.binaries rec.kites.books rec.kites.buggy rec.kites.buggy.kite rec.kites.buggy.nekkid rec.kites.catalogs rec.kites.ego rec.kites.elite rec.kites.fabric rec.kites.fighter.indian rec.kites.fighter.misc rec.kites.fighter.rokkaku rec.kites.frank.fan rec.kites.gomberg.worship rec.kites.localclub rec.kites.magazines rec.kites.marketplace rec.kites.misc rec.kites.newbies rec.kites.oracle rec.kites.sailing rec.kites.sex rec.kites.spars rec.kites.stack rec.kites.test rec.kites.web You owe the Kite Oracle a vote. Andrew -- New to rec.kites? START HERE! > To: www@kfs.org send an email message like this: > Subject: service > http://www.kfs.org/kites/welcome/index.html = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 04:10:18 -1000 From: Mr.Nasty@ix.netcom.com (Frank Kenisky) Message-Id: <3k1joa$2ld@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> Organization: Netcom Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? In <3jnoe5$2d5@news1.shell> skyvis@shell.portal.com (Richard P Cornwell) writes: > NO TO MODERATING. If you split rec.kites, make a rec.kites.marketplace, >or rec.kites.forsale (new and used products). This way when someone wants >a new kite he/she could look in the news group. But maybe someone my not >be looking and on seeing a review of a new kite my decide to not pay the >rent or something to get a new kite :-). > > Rich Good point. I agree. Frank = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 11:23:14 -1000 From: swright@ix.netcom.com (Walter Wright III) Message-Id: <3k2d42$a6c@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> Organization: Netcom Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? Add my name to the "no split" list (are we really voting here or is this a straw poll?). I like seeing the advertisements (such as they are) in with the other stuff. If you just put the authors into your kill file like you do Frank, you'd have little to worry about (just teasing ..... ;-)! Skip -- Skip Wright swright@ix.netcom.com ...... Play walter.wright@shrmed.com ... Work Permission is hereby granted to use this correspondence freely. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 08:27:43 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: <3k4n6v$972@southern.co.nz> Organization: Southern InterNet Services Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? Andrew Beattie (andrew@tug.com) wrote: : Carl Crowell wrote: : >The following groups are clearly needed for rec.kites to expand into: : >rec.kites.dualline : >rec.kites.single : >rec.kites.fighter : >rec.kites.soft : >rec.kites.quad : >rec.kites.quad.revclone : >rec.kites.copyright : >rec.kites.patent.law : >rec.kites.faq.general : >rec.kites.faq.stunt : >rec.kites.faq.reviews : >rec.kites.faq.kap : >rec.kites.faq.festival : >rec.kites.ojsimpson.fan : >rec.kites.tonyaharding.fan : >rec.kites.pointless.art : >rec.kites.newnewsgroups : >rec.kites.carl : >rec.kites.osfm : I would have thought that you would know better than this Carl. Since are a : "rec" group, we need to have a discussion and a call for votes for each group. : Also, you seem to have overlooked: : : rec.kites.administration : rec.kites.aka : rec.kites.anagrams : rec.kites.andrew : rec.kites.binaries : rec.kites.books : rec.kites.buggy : rec.kites.buggy.kite : rec.kites.buggy.nekkid : rec.kites.catalogs : rec.kites.ego : rec.kites.elite : rec.kites.fabric : rec.kites.fighter.indian : rec.kites.fighter.misc : rec.kites.fighter.rokkaku : rec.kites.frank.fan : rec.kites.gomberg.worship : rec.kites.localclub : rec.kites.magazines : rec.kites.marketplace : rec.kites.misc : rec.kites.newbies : rec.kites.oracle : rec.kites.sailing : rec.kites.sex : rec.kites.spars : rec.kites.stack : rec.kites.test : rec.kites.web : : You owe the Kite Oracle a vote. : : Andrew Hey, come on now. There are already 10,000 + newsgroups, of which I have about 68 in my reading list, and rec.kites is _one_ of those groups which I read daily. I don't think many, if any, readers of rec.kites want to have about 24 subgroups to read instead of just the single existing group "rec.kites". I am already having great problems in trying to point this aspect of newsgroup creation/proliferation/fragmentation out to the regular readers of the newsgroup "news.groups" where the RFDs and CFVs are discussed. Have you guys all fallen out of your buggies, bumped your heads and damaged your brains in the process ? Or have you been reading "news.groups" and getting these crazy ideas from there ? :-( Bye, = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 11:33:05 -1000 From: Peter.Dawson@ind3x.dircon.co.uk (Peter Dawson) Message-Id: Organization: ind3x Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? from: Peter.Dawson@ind3x.dircon.co.uk >The following groups are clearly needed for rec.kites to expand into: >rec.kites.dualline >rec.kites.single >rec.kites.fighter etc. etc. etc. AB> I would have thought that you would know better than this Carl. Since AB> are a "rec" group, we need to have a discussion and a call for votes AB> for each group. Also, you seem to have overlooked: AB> rec.kites.administration AB> rec.kites.aka AB> rec.kites.anagrams AB> rec.kites.andrew etc. etc. etc. AB> You owe the Kite Oracle a vote. Oh my goodness, that is this area coming to, dont you realise that you'll scare new people off with this sort of fractioning. I dont want this, as a relative newcomer to the sport, let alone rec.kites, I'm interested in many aspects that kiteing has to offer and dont wish to have to work around umpteen areas to find out whats going on. and please dont forget that some of us get on line privately through b.b.s's that may be willing to carry one or two areas, not the 40+ that are listed above! I log on usually once a week and there is less than 200 messages a week, so it takes me a couple of hours to skim through and see thats going on, I dont consider that bad, my b.b.s. posts almost that much as "forced" but I at least have the choice of ignoring it. Its like the T.V. The most powerful influence that the individual has is the "off" switch. Regards, Peter. ... Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally. +-----------------------------------------------------------+ | ind3x.dircon.co.uk in Nottingham, England /_ _|_ | | // || |_|\/ | | "...Slave to the hormone, body and soul..." // ||_|_|/\ | +-----------------------------------------------------------+ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 20:43:08 -1000 From: bernhard.malle@dbag.ulm.daimlerbenz.com (Bernhard Malle) Message-Id: <9503170643.AA28230@dagobert> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites I have only got .01 cent that I can spend on this subject, but here we go: IF we will split rec.kites, we should at least have the following additional groups to what Carl and Andrew have already posted: rec.kites.peter-lynn-fan rec.kites.octopus rec.kites.digests rec.kites.nasty-bullshit The last one would at least avoid to constantly change the kill file in order to be not disturb by the messages of Mr. Nesty (sp?) (I want to avoid the term "posting" because in my opinion there is a huge difference between what Mr. Nesty is sending and the postings that are commonly seen on rec.kites). And please: Do not exceed 30 subgroups. This would really make life much harder for anyone who is reading rec.kites on an ASCII terminal. Bernhard -- +-----------------------------------------+-----------------------+ | Bernhard Malle Tel: +49 7305 22203 | Go fly an octopus !! | | Ulm, Germany Fax: +49 731 505-4210 | | | Bernhard.Malle@dbag.ulm.daimlerbenz.com | | +-----------------------------------------+----------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 04:21:09 -1000 From: merlinh@develcon.com (Merlin Hansen) Message-Id: <3kc5sl$htt@zaphod.develcon.com> Organization: Develcon Electronics Ltd., Saskatoon, SK, Canada Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? In article <3k4n6v$972@southern.co.nz>, Colin Douthwaite wrote: >Andrew Beattie (andrew@tug.com) wrote: > >: Carl Crowell wrote: > >: >The following groups are clearly needed for rec.kites to expand into: [group descriptions deleted.] > >: I would have thought that you would know better than this Carl. Since are a >: "rec" group, we need to have a discussion and a call for votes for each group. >: Also, you seem to have overlooked: >: [group descriptions deleted.] >: Andrew > >Hey, come on now. There are already 10,000 + newsgroups, of which I >have about 68 in my reading list, and rec.kites is _one_ of those >groups which I read daily. > >I don't think many, if any, readers of rec.kites want to have about >24 subgroups to read instead of just the single existing group >"rec.kites". > [deleted] I agree 100! I currently have 85 groups that I try to read as often as possible. Some I read daily, the others when I can. If rec.kites was split I doubt I would read more than one of the sub-groups. Sure it would be nice to spend the day searching through 125 groups and sub-groups just to find articles about the 3 subjects I need information on today, but unfortunately I have to work at least 7.5 hours and my wife and kids like to see me more than once or twice a week. rec.kites is great the way it is. Merlin. -- | Merlin Hansen | DISCLAIMER : | Develcon Electronics | | Phone : +1(306)931-1332 | These are my | 856-51 St. E, Saskatoon, SK. | | Fax : +1(306)931-1370 | opinions and | Canada, S7K 5C7 | | E-mail: merlinh@develcon.com | views, not necessarily my employers! | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 13:32:32 -1000 From: Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org Message-Id: <1995Mar16.233232.7370@icare.fdn.org> Organization: Individual - Levallois, France. Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites ? Please Andrew, do not start new flame war exagerating some considerations. There was long threads about advertisments, regarding used kites sales and so on. I ***just*** want to avoid bandwidth use for those who do not want to see something that could be seen as an ad. Nothing else. I personnaly DO NOT want to spend my $$$ on rec.kites.binaries, because I spend my own money. In this case, splitting is a good idea. I do not care about fighters, buggy, but this is refreshing to read some post regarding those subjects. This is the reason why splitting is a bad idea in that case. There is not ONE truth, ONE good opinion. If nobody but a few are shocked about "Tracer for sale" or "Gone With The Wind is a good shop", let's going on, and the discuss is closed forever. Ciao ! Bruno --------------------------- Bruno Brottier 37 rue Chaptal 92300 LEVALLOIS PERRET - FRANCE E-mail: Bruno.Brottier@icare.fdn.org -- [NeXTmail] --------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 08:33:21 -1000 From: sasaki@netope.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <9503201833.AA22218@netope.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Shall we split rec.kites I really do have Frank in my kill file, but this note was brought to my attention by a rec.kites reader who thought I should reply. Pardon me for putting in my .02 worth of concern, but this sounds pretty snooty to me. Parts of it were a bit harsh, and I apologize for this. How do you know that a usegroup will have low volume? Because you said it? What basis do you use for your projections? The AKA ranking system maybe. I base this projection on the fact that as far as the overall network goes, rec.kites has low volume. Add to this that the number of binaries on both of the archives is low. I've got some past experience to help me estimate as well. I maintained the kites mailing list before rec.kites was formed. I've contributed to rec.kites since it began. I've also been working with computers and networks for over 20 years now. So, it's a guess. It's just my opinion, but I didn't form this opinion out of thin air... I also think it was Carl who agreed that a binary group would probably be useful. Carl can state his opinion. Anyone can. Many do. If anyone is actually interested in splitting rec.kites, and feels very strongly about it, then I suggest trying to split the group. There is an established procedure. I don't recall where it is described, but if you like, I will find out and let you know. Send me mail if you are interested. >If someone is unwilling to learn the incantation to get something via >FTP-by-mail, then they really don't deserve to get anything. And this statement is a prime example of someone who seems to think you are better than all others. No, I don't think that I'm better everyone else. This is harsh, and I apologize. However, FTP-by-mail has been documented several times in this group. The instructions are in the FAQ as well as the pointer to the FAQ that Colin Douthwaite posts. If you post a message on rec.kites asking how to do FTP-by-mail, you will get plenty of friendly responses telling you how to do this. The actual procedure is very easy. You send a piece of mail to one of the ftp-by-mail sites (ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com was (is?) a good one) with an appropriately formed message with your request (no subject line, the message "help" will give you a list of commands). Some time later (could be minutes, could be a day or two) you will receive as an email message the stuff you requested. I don't consider this difficult to do. If someone is unwilling to do this much, then I don't have any sympathy for them. However, if someone is unable to do this, then I will help them out if I can. The only way to spread the excitement of kiting is to share the way. You are too bother to do this then don't post this crap. It makes you look like the self centered egotistical goon you really are. Thanks Frank. I will add "self-centered egotistical goon" to the collection of names that you have called me. Let's see, there is "moron", "imbecile", "lemming", and five others involving bodily functions that I won't enumerate. Are there any rec.kites folks that have been called more names than this by Mr. Nasty? I think that if you ask around you will find that I've pissed off a number of people. I admit that I've made mistakes and I'm not good about doing some stuff. However, I think you will find that I've helped out a lot of people over time. I've tried pretty hard to help people out with kites. Maybe I don't spend enough time helping people out and spreading the good news about kites and maybe I could spend more time on rec.kites, but I try to have a balanced life and I do think I spend a lot of time with kites. Ask my friends or my patient SO. BTW - it was only a suggestion a simple yes or no is all that is necessary. No, a simple yes or no is not all that is necessary. This wasn't a poll, it was a discussion. I wanted to say "no, and here are my reasons". It isn't useful or enlightening to just say "yes" or "no". Marty Sasaki = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =