Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 09:08:23 -1000 From: nmiller@crl.com (Norman Miller) Message-Id: <2t54v7$ri@crl.crl.com> Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access (415) 705-6060 [login: guest] Subject: Why did my kite go down into the sea? After a lovely afternoon on Cape Cod with no troubles at all, I went out to Plum Island off Newburyport with high expectations. This time it was a land breeze and fairly but not exceptionally brisk. The Ultralite delta-conyne went up as usual, but as it got over the water it behaved differently than it normally does. For one thing, it didn't climb. Tightening the line resulted only in a threatened power-dive. The more line that went out resulted only in a lower flying angle. Finally the poor think sank. It's a tribute to the kite-maker that only the spars were broken. Every stitch held through half a mile of dredging through the Atlantic Ocean. Now the question: what happened? I have a theory but I'm not a physicist or an experience kite-flier so feel free to knock the hell out of it. It goes like this: the Atlantic this time of year is still very cold and produces no thermals worth speaking of. Coupled with a stiff land-breeze a kite flown this way has little option. Or is the explanation something else entirely? Norman Miller nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 07:55:03 -1000 From: terrapin@bga.com (Scott Sexton) Message-Id: <2t7l1n$70t@giga.bga.com> Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates Subject: Re: Why did my kite go down into the sea? Norman Miller (nmiller@crl.com) wrote: : After a lovely afternoon on Cape Cod with no troubles at all, I went out : to Plum Island off Newburyport with high expectations. This time it was a : land breeze and fairly but not exceptionally brisk. The Ultralite My guess would have to be that there was too much wind. That's the only immediate explaination I can come up with. However you said "it was a land breeze and fairly but not exceptionally brisk." so that blows a hole in that theory. Maybe the wind above the ground was real strong or maybe the wind out on the H2O was stronger?? Happy Flying Scott Sexton terrapin@bga.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 17:44:01 -1000 From: skip18@aol.com (Skip18) Message-Id: <2t8ni1$lgt@search01.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Why did my kite go down into the sea? My guess would be: because you weren't flying over the beach. Murphy's Law is a bitch, isn't it? Skip Martin, skip18@aol.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 09:40:38 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Re: Why did my kite go down into the sea? Norman Miller (nmiller@crl.com) wrote: : This time it was a : land breeze and fairly but not exceptionally brisk. The Ultralite : delta-conyne went up as usual, but as it got over the water it behaved : differently than it normally does. For one thing, it didn't climb. : Tightening the line resulted only in a threatened power-dive. The more : line that went out resulted only in a lower flying angle. Finally the : poor think sank. : Now the question: what happened? I had a similar experience with an Indian fighter earlier this year, but this time it was the Pacific not the Atlantic ocean. No matter what I tried the kite flew out over the sea and got lower and lower. All I could do was wind in as much line as possible before it sank into the sea. Fortunately it didn't drown and I was able to wind it ashore. I offer no explanation. I guessed it was some sort of down draught occurring where the outgoing land breeze met the incoming sea breeze. Whatever it was I could not prevent the kite from staying out over the sea or gradually getting lower and lower. Weird eh ? Bye, = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 07:21:28 -1000 From: c.v.dunton@LaRC.NASA.GOV (Charlie Dunton) Message-Id: <2tkouo$gv6@reznor.larc.nasa.gov> Organization: NASA, Langley Research Center Subject: Re: Why did my kite go down into the sea? In article , Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) says: > >Norman Miller (nmiller@crl.com) wrote: >: This time it was a >: land breeze and fairly but not exceptionally brisk. The Ultralite >: delta-conyne went up as usual, but as it got over the water it behaved >: differently than it normally does. For one thing, it didn't climb. >: Tightening the line resulted only in a threatened power-dive. The more >: line that went out resulted only in a lower flying angle. Finally the >: poor think sank. > >: Now the question: what happened? > > >I had a similar experience with an Indian fighter earlier this year, >but this time it was the Pacific not the Atlantic ocean. No matter >what I tried the kite flew out over the sea and got lower and lower. >All I could do was wind in as much line as possible before it sank >into the sea. Fortunately it didn't drown and I was able to wind it >ashore. > >I offer no explanation. I guessed it was some sort of down draught >occurring where the outgoing land breeze met the incoming sea >breeze. Whatever it was I could not prevent the kite from staying >out over the sea or gradually getting lower and lower. Weird eh ? > >Bye, Living near the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay, one can find people who are intimately familiar with winds at the land/sea interface. I had lunch today with a gentleman with many years of successfull sailing competition under his belt. The conversation turned to sails, sail materials, kites, etc. and I was reminded of this post so I asked his opinion of what was going on. His explanation went this way as best I can relate it. It is very common in this area, at this time of the year, to have a land breeze(from land to sea) in the morning. As the sun rises and the beach heats up, you will get strong thermals developing over the beach. Especially when the water is cool, this thermal will start to pull air in from the sea. This will cause an interaction between the prevailing land breeze and the thermal induced sea breeze which results in the development of a dead zone of no wind over the water near the shore. This was probably the situation that the kites found themselves in. Later, as the beach continues to heat up, the wind on/near the beach will actually shift and become a sea breeze as the strength of the thermal increases and the sea component overcomes the land component. The kites may have actually run into this situation. It's tough to fly your kite directly _into_ the wind. :-) This sailor went on to say that he had won many races by recognizing the start of the failing land breeze and sailing as far to the east as he could so that he would be the first to receive the advantage of the sea breeze when it developed. I am sure there are many other possible explanations for the problems experienced by Norman and Colin, but this seemed very plausible to me, so I wanted to share it with others. My friend also said that the exact opposite condition can develop in the fall when the water is warm and the night is cool. The morning sea breeze can be neutralized by a thermal induced land breeze as the day warms up. He did say that these situations usually don't occur when there is a front or other strong weather condition driving the prevailing breeze. Charlie -- Charlie Dunton c.v.dunton@larc.nasa.gov May you never stand in the shadow of your kite. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 17:40:42 -1000 From: Colin_Douthwaite@equinox.gen.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: Organization: Equinox Networks Subject: Re: Why did my kite go down into the sea? Charlie Dunton (c.v.dunton@LaRC.NASA.GOV) wrote: : Living near the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay, one can find people who : are intimately familiar with winds at the land/sea interface. I had : lunch today with a gentleman with many years of successfull sailing : competition under his belt. The conversation turned to sails, : sail materials, kites, etc. and I was reminded of this post so I : asked his opinion of what was going on. : His explanation went this way as best I can relate it. Thank you Charlie for that fascinating and informative article about land/sea wind interaction. I reckon it was close to the real reasons for loss of kite control. The lesson of these stories is don't let your kites track out over the sea if you can avoid it. > Charlie Dunton > c.v.dunton@larc.nasa.gov > May you never stand in the shadow of your kite. ....or under the shadow of your buggy ! :-) :-) Bye, = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =