Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 00:23:05 -1000 From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-Id: <1993Nov24.102305.27454@funet.fi> Organization: Finnish University and Research Network FUNET Subject: Shunt Bridle (Was: Re: X-1, X minus 1, X-1 pica lite In <1993Nov23.161648.18885@das.harvard.edu> sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: >In article <1993Nov23.073832.14861@funet.fi>, salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes: >>Is it a trade secret or could somebody describe how to make the >>cross, shunt bridle? >This ties in with the copyright discussion that has been going on. >It is a great idea and if I wanted to control it's use, I would patent >it immediately. Patents can be expensive (the patent search can cost a >bundle) and Dean probably won't bother with it. >So, while I can legally use it however I want to, I won't do so >because ethically I think it is wrong to not let the creator of >something reap the benefits of his/her hard work. >What this means is that I won't be sharing "how to make the bridle" >with anyone else, and won't be using he bridle on my production kites >for a while, or until I get Dean's permission. I might use it on a few >experimental kites, or my personal kites. Marty, I asked because your posting described attractively this candy, but I didn't know if it was just a teaser about something what one cannot get. My interest was/is to use it on my personal kites, like you. However, I don't make kites commercially - like you. (Are you still manufacturing and selling kites?) Because I am not making kites commercially, I don't feel it's ethically wrong to use ideas from other people. If I would, I coudn't make any kite. I don't have any kite idea, which wouldn't be based on other peoples work. Kiting community is (has been?) very open to share ideas, rec.kites has been a good example of this. Are we going to change this? >I urge everyone else to do the same until Dean decides whether he >wants the public at large to know about the bridle. If Dean does not want public to know about it, why he and you posted articles about it? Just for advertising a commercial product? >One thing to note is that although the principle is simple, a lot of >time needs to be spent to really understand how the bridle works on >individual kites. Dean deserves a lot of credit for persevering and >making the bridle work. > I guess I would agree about the credit, when I know the work Dean has done. Smooth Winds Simo -- Simo.Salanne@csc.fi -- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 06:44:02 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Nov24.164402.19263@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Shunt Bridle (Was: Re: X-1, X minus 1, X-1 pica lite In article <1993Nov24.102305.27454@funet.fi>, salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) writes: >I asked because your posting described attractively this candy, >but I didn't know if it was just a teaser about something what >one cannot get. My interest was/is to use it on my personal >kites, like you. However, I don't make kites commercially - >like you. (Are you still manufacturing and selling kites?) I guess it was unfair of me to dangle this in front of people who won't be able to look at the bridle on the X-1. I mentioned it because the bridle is part of what makes the X-1 such a nice kite. I also know what it is like to do something innovative and then to see someone steal the idea and claim it to be their own. I didn't know how Dean felt about it. But Dean has provided a way that people can learn about the bridle, so now anyone who cares can learn the how's and why's of the bridle. >Kiting community is (has been?) very open to share ideas, >rec.kites has been a good example of this. Are we going >to change this? When a person's method of making money is at stake, things change. I share everything that I know, but my kite business is a side line. Dean (and others as well) don't have the "luxury" of another job. Small things can make a big difference in production, which changes the profit, which changes the way life is lived. >>I urge everyone else to do the same until Dean decides whether he >>wants the public at large to know about the bridle. > >If Dean does not want public to know about it, why he and you >posted articles about it? Just for advertising a commercial >product? As I said above, the bridle makes the kite a nice one. I wanted to agree with Dean that it was innovative. That's the reason that I made both postings. I won't speak for Dean. However, I didn't feel that it was my right to tell everyone on the net the details of the bridle. It wasn't my idea and I haven't done any work on it or a variation of it. At some point I will have experience and maybe then I'll have something to say. And as far as being open, you have given both Dean and I a slap in the face. This is especially troublesome since you have not met Dean or held a conversation (electronic or otherwise) with him. I have spent a lot of time and money helping people out in the kite world. Dean has done the same. Ask either of us almost anything and we will answer to the best of our ability. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 08:53:54 -1000 From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-Id: <1993Nov24.185354.11120@funet.fi> Organization: Finnish University and Research Network FUNET Subject: Re: Shunt Bridle (Was: Re: X-1, X minus 1, X-1 pica lite In <1993Nov24.164402.19263@das.harvard.edu> sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: (text deleted) >And as far as being open, you have given both Dean and I a slap in the >face. This is especially troublesome since you have not met Dean or >held a conversation (electronic or otherwise) with him. I have spent a >lot of time and money helping people out in the kite world. Dean has >done the same. Ask either of us almost anything and we will answer to >the best of our ability. > I am not in a position to slap either of you in the face. I apologise if I did. My sincere, simple question was: if the cross, shunt bridle is a trade secret or can somebody describe how to make it? It was first time I heard about such bridle, I couldn't understand you feel it "slapping in the face" when ask if it's possible to know more about it. I did not "request" the description how to make the bridle; my question offered the alternative of trade secret (was that wrong wording?). I appreciate your and Dean's contributions to the kiting world. I know it's difficult for you to say "no", but you shouldn't feel you have "slapped in the face" if I ask something you must answer "sorry, it's a trade secret, which I cannot reveal". Smooth Winds Simo -- Simo.Salanne@csc.fi -- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =