Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 03:51:00 -1000 From: perry.farmer@thefarmbbs.com Message-Id: Organization: THE FARM BBS Subject: Re: Materials was Re: Beginner Kite Maki >single line kites this is not the case. They rely more on reaction of the wi >impinging on the front surface of the kite. Porosity means loss of some of >this reaction force and loss of performance. Everybody always thinks of a ki >as an airplane wing in a steady state condition(except Sasaki thankfully) an >attempts to analyze as such. The closest we ever come to such a condition is >while buggying on a reach with the kite parked with relation to the buggy. Exactly, funny how much valueable information is not valueable without this understanding. One book I have for example on 4 liners states that the author could fly stop signs with the correct bridles. Perry T H E F A R M ___________________________________________________________ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ___________________________________________________________ WHERE HOGS GATHER TO PLAY = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:27:00 -1000 From: perry.farmer@thefarmbbs.com Message-Id: Organization: THE FARM BBS Subject: Re: Materials was Re: Beginner Kite Maki > I seldom have any disagreements with what you post, but there always come >an exception. Consider a stunt kite at the moment of launch with as yet no >forward velocity. The angle of the sail to the wind is such that the kite is >way into total stall and there is for practical purposes no Bernoulli lift >generated. Plate lift is what makes the kite move, and untill its velocity >increases to the point the apparent wind vector has rotated to an angle that >is below stall there is very little if any Bernoulli lift. Also consider a I agree, in a turbine, this kind of lift (if you want to call it lift) would be considered reactionary. \ \ ------------------->\ \ \ \ \ \ -> In this example there would be almost no Benoulli effect due to the upper part of the wind being almost totally stalled. Wind would strike the kite and would spill off the bottom edge. Movement would be reactionary. Once the kite picks up speed such that the reactionary movement is producing enough thrust (most likely a better term for this) the Bernoulli effect would start to come into the picture. Only directly overhead, would the kite be into what would come close to being called "total Benoulli lift". It is at this point that with my Prism Eclipse, I can actually let go of the handles for a few seconds. I figure a good way to determine this is if the kite is trying to lift you, you have Benoulli, if it is trying to drag you, a good portion of the lift is coming from the reactionary force (this is assuming the kite is travelling vertically), and the wind is horizontal without updrafts. Perry T H E F A R M ___________________________________________________________ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ^. .^ ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ( @ ) ___________________________________________________________ WHERE HOGS GATHER TO PLAY = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 08:58:53 -1000 From: lord@eskimo.com (David Lord) Message-Id: Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever Subject: Re: Materials was Re: Beginner Kite Maki In article perry.farmer@thefarmbbs.com writes: >Subject: Re: Materials was Re: Beginner Kite Maki >From: perry.farmer@thefarmbbs.com >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 19:27:00 PST >> I seldom have any disagreements with what you post, but there always come >>an exception. Consider a stunt kite at the moment of launch with as yet no >>forward velocity. The angle of the sail to the wind is such that the kite is >>way into total stall and there is for practical purposes no Bernoulli lift >>generated. Plate lift is what makes the kite move, and untill its velocity >>increases to the point the apparent wind vector has rotated to an angle that >>is below stall there is very little if any Bernoulli lift. Also consider a >I agree, in a turbine, this kind of lift (if you want to call it lift) would >be considered reactionary. > \ > \ > ------------------->\ > \ \ > \ \ > \ > -> >In this example there would be almost no Benoulli effect due to the upper >part of the wind being almost totally stalled. Wind would strike the kite >and would spill off the bottom edge. Movement would be reactionary. Once the >kite picks up speed such that the reactionary movement is producing enough >thrust (most likely a better term for this) the Bernoulli effect would start >to come into the picture. Only directly overhead, would the kite be into >what would come close to being called "total Benoulli lift". It is at this >point that with my Prism Eclipse, I can actually let go of the handles for a >few seconds. >I figure a good way to determine this is if the kite is trying to lift you, >you have Benoulli, if it is trying to drag you, a good portion of the lift >is coming from the reactionary force (this is assuming the kite is >travelling vertically), and the wind is horizontal without updrafts. >Perry Perry You are a very insightful and smart person. I always feel that way about people that agree with me, but in this case it does seem obvious we both are correct. However, this just proves Marty is human no matter what Frank says. Dave Lord = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =