Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 13:47:17 -1000 From: glawrence@symantec.com (George Lawrence) Message-Id: <367mi5INN44q@symiserver.symantec.com> Organization: Symantec Corporation Subject: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) Hi everyone, I'm a brand new kite enthusiast and I'm constructing my first stunt kite. I've got some plans and a pretty good idea of what I want, but I don't have many choices when it comes to where to buy the materials. I've got a catalog from "Into the Wind" which has almost everything I need. They don't have Icarex in a few shades I want (Orange, for one) and Kevlar fabric (I wanted to use it instead of nylon webbing for the top where all the sleeves come together). Are there better kite supply places that I could try? Thanks for helping the new guy. -- George = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:14:02 -1000 From: hayden1009@aol.com (Hayden1009) Message-Id: <36a1uq$2uf@newsbf01.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) In article <367mi5INN44q@symiserver.symantec.com>, glawrence@symantec.com (George Lawrence) writes: >Where to get fabric & supplies? The following suppliers have many fabric choices (I don't believe in Kevlar, so I don't know who has that!). Hang 'm High Fabrics, Tom Marvin (804)233-5155, VA Kite Studio, Steve & Tony Ferrel (215)395-3560, PA 4-Ever Young Kites, Dave Young (203)635-7545, CT = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 06:28:40 -1000 From: ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) Message-Id: Organization: MIT/LCS Spoken Language Systems Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) In article <36a1uq$2uf@newsbf01.news.aol.com> hayden1009@aol.com (Hayden1009) writes: | Hang 'm High Fabrics, Tom Marvin (804)233-5155, VA I *strongly* second that recommendation. I've never had anything but the best service and prices from Tom. -- Lee Hetherington ilh@lcs.mit.edu = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 03:19:11 -1000 From: mauricio@tezcat.com (Mauricio Araujo) Message-Id: <36eesf$akh@xochi.tezcat.com> Organization: Tezcat.COM, Chicago Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) George Lawrence (glawrence@symantec.com) wrote: : Are there better kite supply places that I could try? Try calling Hang-em High Fabrics, 1420 Yale Ave., Richmond, VA 23224, (804) 233-6155. He has everything that a kitebuilder needs. He is also a very nice guy. -- ============================================================================= Opinions not necessarily those of the author ;) _____________________________________________________________________________ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:28:58 -1000 From: dickbell@netcom.com (Dick Bell) Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) George Lawrence (glawrence@symantec.com) wrote: : Hi everyone, : I'm a brand new kite enthusiast and I'm constructing my first stunt kite. : I've got some plans and a pretty good idea of what I want, but I don't : have many choices when it comes to where to buy the materials. I've got a : catalog from "Into the Wind" which has almost everything I need. They : don't have Icarex in a few shades I want (Orange, for one) and Kevlar : fabric (I wanted to use it instead of nylon webbing for the top where all : the sleeves come together). George I can not add to the list of suppliers....they are all good and all have a slightly different list of parts to build kites. I have with some of my kites ordered parts from several suppliers to build a single kite. So it is best to get all catalogues and color swatches from each vendor. I would suggest that you take a second look at using the kevlar on the nose of the kite as kevlar does not heat seal the way nylon webbing does and unless you find a way to seal it (serger ?) it will unravel. As far as the Icarex cloth...it has some great attributes...nice (different) colors, fade resistant, light...ect..ect...one draw back..it crinkles and rinkles very easily. You might think about building your first prototype >From 3/4 ripstop and the final version from Icarex. Good luck :-) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dick Bell dickbell@netcom.com Dallas, Texas = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 07:04:48 -1000 From: jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <36k4rg$1kd@geog40.umd.edu> Organization: Project Glue, University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) In article , Dick Bell wrote: >I would suggest that you take a second look at using the kevlar on the >nose of the kite as kevlar does not heat seal the way nylon webbing does >and unless you find a way to seal it (serger ?) it will unravel. I've not yet had any trouble with the kevlar I've used for the noses of kites (or on purchased kites that use it). The kevlar is sticky-backed; I cut out a piece and stick it to some 1.5oz hotcut ripstop sized larger than the kevlar and then sew that on. Occasionally you'll see very light fraying at the edges if the kevlar is as wide as the fabric that's backing it, but I certainly wouldn't say I've had any unraveling on any of my kites after 1 to 2 years (particularly on my Pro and Ultra, both of which I bought before I had any kevlar for myself). I've also not had any unraveling of the kevlar I use for the reinforcement at the center of my Revs. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | Pithy, insightful quote to be inserted | | | when one occurs to me. *If* one occurs | |jeffy@eng.umd.edu | to me. | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 13:00:12 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) dickbell@netcom.com (Dick Bell) writes: >Icarex cloth [...] it crinkles and rinkles very easily. I'd like to hear more about this. I've heard it a couple of times but it conflicts with my experience: 1) I fly Icarex Peels. If I crunch them up very hard (like squeezing the 10 and the 7.5 into the same small stuff bag), then it will be reluctant to fly first time until it has had a chance to take a good lungful of air and puff back to it's usual shape, but no lasting damage is done. Indeed my Peels seem to have aged very little. 2) In January, I saw Dean flying a well worn X-1. The leading edge was looking a bit tatty from abuse against the ground, but I recall no appearance of ageing on the skin itsself. I don't recall ever seeing an Icarex Delta suffering from crinkle/wrinkle damage. I have a suspicion that the problem referred to relates to retail sales and that a brand new Icarex delta looks more wrinkly than a brand new (say) Carrington delta, but that the distinction dissapears after the first days flying. Any manufacturers or retailers care to comment? Andrew -- Netiquette-of-the-day: Keep your signature to 4 lines or less You can FTP the kite FAQ's from ftp.hawaii.edu (directory /pub/rec/kites/faq) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 04:56:01 -1000 From: ahclem0013@aol.com (AhClem0013) Message-Id: <36mhm1$agi@newsbf01.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar In article , andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) writes: >I have a suspicion that the problem referred to relates to retail sales and >that a brand new Icarex delta looks more wrinkly than a brand new (say) >Carrington delta, but that the distinction dissapears after the first days >flying. ********************This is true. Further, as a test my friend and sometime partner Lawrentz of Alachua has sewn Icarex patches on his jeans, they have withstood many washings and still look new. As far as we can tell, for our purposes, Icarex is a very superior fabric, being completley waterproof, it is fantastic in coastal areas as well. >Any manufacturers or retailers care to comment? This opinion supported by rigorous testing is brought to you buy Jordan Air Kites aox o m o x o a = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 22:21:11 -1000 From: crowell@teleport.com (Carl Crowell) Message-Id: Organization: Kites By Carl Crowell Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) In article andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) writes: > I don't recall ever seeing an Icarex Delta suffering from >crinkle/wrinkle damage. >I have a suspicion that the problem referred to relates to retail sales and >that a brand new Icarex delta looks more wrinkly than a brand new (say) >Carrington delta, but that the distinction dissapears after the first days >flying. When i put kites away that require folding, there is a noticable distortion to the fabric at the fold point. This does not seem to be as much of a problem if the entire kite can be rolled, or stuffed without folding. Sad to say, I have found a flaw in the perfect cloth, the king is dead.... carl = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 18:44:34 -1000 From: jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-Id: <36o27i$40r@geog40.umd.edu> Organization: Project Glue, University of Maryland, College Park Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) In article , Andrew Beattie wrote: >I'd like to hear more about this. I've heard it a couple of times but it >conflicts with my experience: > >1) I fly Icarex Peels. If I crunch them up very hard (like squeezing the 10 >and the 7.5 into the same small stuff bag), then it will be reluctant to fly >first time until it has had a chance to take a good lungful of air and puff >back to it's usual shape, but no lasting damage is done. Indeed my Peels >seem to have aged very little. I'd question the statement that "no lasting damage is done." It's been my experience that Icarex *does* pick up permanent marks in the fabric where wrinkling has occurred; the wrinkles are a different shade of whatever color the fabric is. I've noticed it in my 3/4oz lime green Pro, my 1/2oz white X-1, and the teal, purple, and red I've used on some of my Rev's. I've noticed no such discoloration in the black sections of the black Icarex kites I've built. I'd consider this "visual damage"; it doesn't seem to effect the way the kite flies, but it can be distracting when you're looking at the kite. On the other hand, one might find it visually pleasing and perhaps similar to batik, so perhaps it doesn't matter? On a slightly more serious side, I *have* noticed that my original Icarex Rev II (with at least a couple hundred hours of air time) absorbs water, which implies to me that the coating has deteriorated significantly. Water rolls off fresh Icarex. I have no idea at what point it became capable of absorbing water; it's not my custom to fly when it's raining. I noticed the problem when the kite was about 7 months old. The center of the trailing edge, the portion which luffs the most (and also has been folded the most during storage) has a soft feel, much like a well-used ripstop nylon. The outer portions of the kite are still nice and crisp. The kite still flies extremely well, but I would be very hard pressed to say it flies like new. I suppose that some might say this sort of data is worthless to the average kite owner, who isn't nearly as obsessive or abusive (in a well-meaning way) about or toward their kites. I can age a Rev *much* faster than the average flyer. ;-) >I have a suspicion that the problem referred to relates to retail sales and >that a brand new Icarex delta looks more wrinkly than a brand new (say) >Carrington delta, but that the distinction dissapears after the first days >flying. As an insult to my kite making skills and praise toward Dean's, my kites come out of the sewing machine looking all wrinkled up, and his coming out looking like the Icarex has never been mistreated in the slightest way, not a single mark on it. The marks come through ordinary storage. ;-) Despite the marks visible on the sail of my Pro, I've never seen an Icarex trailing edge that looks as ratty as those of Carrington on a noisy kite (my experience has been that the trailing edge of a well-loved Phantom looks a disaster!) Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | Pithy, insightful quote to be inserted | | | when one occurs to me. *If* one occurs | |jeffy@eng.umd.edu | to me. | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 07:06:43 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: Organization: Harvard University OIT/NSD Subject: Re: Mail order materials places? (looking for Icarex and Kevlar) In article <36k4rg$1kd@geog40.umd.edu>, jburka@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >Dick Bell wrote: > >>I would suggest that you take a second look at using the kevlar on the >>nose of the kite as kevlar does not heat seal the way nylon webbing does >>and unless you find a way to seal it (serger ?) it will unravel. > >I've not yet had any trouble with the kevlar I've used for the noses of >kites (or on purchased kites that use it). > >The kevlar is sticky-backed; I cut out a piece and stick it to some 1.5oz >hotcut ripstop sized larger than the kevlar and then sew that on. >Occasionally you'll see very light fraying at the edges if the kevlar is as >wide as the fabric that's backing it, but I certainly wouldn't say I've had >any unraveling on any of my kites after 1 to 2 years (particularly on my >Pro and Ultra, both of which I bought before I had any kevlar for myself). Like Jeff, I haven't had any problems with this. I've used both the Kevlar tape (sticky-back) and Kevlar sail cloth. Both have coatings on them that seem to keep the fabric from fraying. I also cover the Kevlar with fabric (usually dacron) which I hot cut. It looks like the fabric melts into the Kevlar to sort of bond it together as well. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =