From: sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P) Subject: KTA Convention and Trade Show Message-ID: <80123@hydra.gatech.EDU> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 08:50:44 EST Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Well, at Marty's urging, I wrote an article about the recent KTA convention and trade show last week in Orlando I was fortunate enough to attend. You may want to down load this and print it out as it ran to 2 1/2 pages when I printed it out. So with out further adieu.... The Magical World Of Kites KTA Orlando 1993 The week of January 9 found the KTA, Kite Trade Association, in Orlando, Florida, for their annual convention and trade show. In a word, the experience was fantastic! If you ever get the opportunity to attend, take it. It is worth the effort and expense. Next year, the festivities take place in Las Vegas (practice up on your dice and cards! Hey, get that right arm warmed up) then returns to Orlando in 95. Firstly, let's talk about the weather. After this convention, one has to wonder why kite people keep on coming back to Florida. Remember RiverBreezes '91, well the weather was similar. That probably didn't mater all that much as Wednesday was devoted to seminars and KTA business, in door stuff, followed by the trade show and more seminars on Thursday and Friday, more in door stuff. But you know kite folks, if you can't get outside and fly, it's sort of disappointing. After driving through rain Thursday night, Friday brought more of the same. Strong winds arrived early in the afternoon and several folks were power roller blading across the street in a large parking lot. Of course the strong winds were a result of a front moving through and sure enough the skies opened up and it poured. Saturday the trade show opened for half a day and the afternoon was dedicated to product demonstrations in a nearby (by car at least) field adjacent to the interstate down by International Drive. Fortunately, it didn't rain and the field was fairly nice with freshly cut grass. However, the winds were marginal at best early in the afternoon and naturally died away to zip by late afternoon. Oh, well. One thing that did strike me was the light winds of the early afternoon were something that everybody, literally, testified to as being the norm where they came from. Didn't mater where either, Germany, Washington, DC, Gainesville, Florida, Atlanta, Georgia, everybody I spoke with all said light winds were the norm from where they hailed. It causes one to think; if this is really so, how did we all get so heavily into kites? No mater. Saturday night was banquet time. An awards presentation was part of the festivities with presentations relating to the show and for work done through the year. I don't recall all the awards but those that I do follow. Best booth went to Hyperkites, I believe mainly because Randy Tom had some of his Nagel creations on display. They won by one vote over Top of the Line, who really had the better (read more professional) booth. Drachen Magazine won for publication of the year. Manufacturer of the Year went to Revolution. AKA won an award for their new series of publications. Retailer of the year went to Into the Wind. The Checkly Award for service went to Judy Nuger and the Batdorf Award winner escapes me. I apologize to any one out in net land that may have won and wasn't mentioned, but I wasn't taking notes at the time. To say nothing of the several brews consumed. Well, on to the good stuff. What is new! Really, there wasn't that much that you haven't heard of, but probably a lot that you haven't seen. Example, this was the first time I've seen Peter Lynn's buggy and it is really cool. The best part about it is that it folds up and fits in a suitcase for transport. Really well made but at its retail price, second thoughts are in order. At over 500 units sold world wide, you would have to call it a success but the general consensus was that the litigation environment in the USA has hindered its success in this country. Unfortunately, the dastardly winds of Saturday didn't permit any buggying but if I'm ever around a buggy in good winds, I'll give it a shot and probably get hooked. The Griffin was introduced. It is a cooperative effort from Condor Kites, Chicago Fire and It's a Breeze. It is a six panel design with 3 stripe and 5 stripe center wing panel variants, in either fiberglass or graphite sparring. Personally, I'm not wild about the graphics or the sail shape. Workmanship is ok, but nothing outstanding. The little chance I had to fly it gave a taste of its handling characteristics. Smooth, predictable, fairly tight turns with little over spin and a moderate speed. Nothing all that exciting. But it is intended as an intermediate step between really inexpensive sport kites and rarified air of super sport kites and as such is a worthy contender. Chicago Fire had a huge Magnum Opus, larger than normal, but it never made it into the air. Great looking kite with excellent workmanship. I flew a regular MO last fall and as a general rule almost anybody can fly them. Great precision kite. Tell it to turn, it turns. Tell it to stop turning, it stops. Easy to fly straight. Rather boring to those accustomed to the Spook. For the first time I flew a quad line kite, the Quadridoil 50 and man I gotta get one of those. Easy to launch, flies like a charm and not as big as the 75. Didn't get a chance at the 75, but it is the kite of choice for power kiting according to the general talk. The Peel is also a viable choice, but people seem to like the Quadrifoil as it is easier to stop. Flying it is not that difficult. I was surprised. I forget who it was (I'd recognize the face but can't remember the name, friend of a friend, that type of thing), brought out an EFM and it is a neat kite with unique standoffs. Nice to fly also. Spectre Star was making the most out of sponsoring Team High Performance and their winning of the World Cup. But you have to wonder why the promo lit had a picture of them posing with what appear to be High Fly Pro-Ams. Alan Nagao was there and demonstrated the HP, albeit a super light wind version. He didn't have much trouble with the lack of wind, but then again you would expect that from one of the best. Dean Jordan, aka Jordan Air, was there and has totally recovered as demonstrated by his continuous 360's through out the afternoon. Dean makes one of the best, if not the best, dual line sport kite in the Pro with the big news being his use of the latest, greatest fabric, Icarex. Icarex is polyester ripstop in 1/2, 3/4 and 1 1/2 oz weights. It's advantages include superior UV resistance and strength as compared to nylon. Available from Shanti Kite Products it is a bit on the pricey side but the color selection is tremendous in addition to its other advantages. More. Reza, ie, Omega Kites, dazzled the crowd with his creations and did a brisk business. Tom Casselman, High Art, has come out with a line of kite art prints culled from antique art work. Look for them at your favorite kite merchant. Dawn Williams of Kite Sails has a line of kite jewelry that is really nice and just the thing for that special some one in your life. Rob-N-Art is producing stained glass kite art work. And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Joel Sholz and Sky Delights. Nothing new here but he always nice kites to look at. Otherwise, more than a few parts suppliers, who I didn't get a chance to visit, kite magazines, Trlby, Go Fly, the Wind Walker division of Gayla Kites, Moran (winders, equalizer, etc.), High Fly Kite Co., MLD (bags), Kite Innovations, Premier, Jackites, pretty much everybody was there. Lastly let me mention Goodwind's Kites, famous for single line creations such as the tumbling boxes Starflake & Asteroid and the Astrofighter. It seems that Kathy is now making sport kites as well. Why is anybody's guess, but the fact remains. And that was one thing heard repeatedly, namely, everybody and there brother is now making sport kites and most are very similar. The other comment heard was the lack of single line kites in the intermediate price range of $75 to $150 price range. The lower end is there but a gap exists to the high end. Well that's about all from the KTA. Fantastic show, enjoyable fellowship with other kite people and a truly memorable experience. We even did some good for the AKA moving some merchandise and getting some new members recruited. And the AKA was the primary reason we went after all. Later. -- The Mad Hata "Hey, Mon....Tako Kichi!" = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Subject: Re: KTA Convention and Trade Show Message-ID: <1993Jan15.164425.3090@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 11:44:25 EST In article <80123@hydra.gatech.EDU>, sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P) writes: >Well, at Marty's urging... Well, it is/was a good article. Aren't you happy that you wrote it? > The Griffin was introduced... >... The little chance I had to fly it gave a taste >of its handling characteristics. Smooth, predictable, fairly tight >turns with little over spin and a moderate speed. Nothing all that >exciting. But it is intended as an intermediate step between really >inexpensive sport kites and rarified air of super sport kites and >as such is a worthy contender. It is also a pretty good team kite. It used to be that you wanted a team kite with no over spin, but with stalls and skates showing up in everybodies routines, a kite like the Griffin fits in nicely. Many people think that this is where the money is to be made. Expect to see more graphite, fairly high performance kites in this price range. I've even thought about resurrecting a few old kites, simplifying the graphics and entering this market. >Spectre Star was making the most out of sponsoring Team High >Performance and their winning of the World Cup. But you have to >wonder why the promo lit had a picture of them posing with what >appear to be High Fly Pro-Ams. These are probably Spectre Sport Freestyle kites. They have more panels than the Pro-ams, straight trailing edge, and little "winglets" on the wing tips. The feel of the kites is different with the Freestyles requiring a lighter touch. The winglets allow dumping air quickly and landing almost anywhere is easy. > Alan Nagao was there and >demonstrated the HP, albeit a super light wind version. He didn't >have much trouble with the lack of wind, but then again you would >expect that from one of the best. The High Performance Edge is a slick kite, or rather, it's a family of slick kites. The high wind version has screening and vents, and the normal wind version is screened. The ultra-light has no screening and is larger than "standard" kites. The ultra-light approach is an interesting one. Rather than go to ultra-light fabric and sticks, the kite is larger. The greater surface area reduces the wing loading using standard materials. Ultra-light fabric and sticks are more expensive and more fragile. I've taken the same approach with my new ultra-light Katana II. >afternoon. Dean makes one of the best, if not the best, dual line >sport kite in the Pro with the big news being his use of the >latest, greatest fabric, Icarex. Well, I take issue with "the best", but the Icarex Pro is a hot kite. Expect to see a lot of them on the flying field. > Icarex is polyester ripstop in >1/2, 3/4 and 1 1/2 oz weights. It's advantages include superior UV >resistance and strength as compared to nylon. Available from Shanti >Kite Products it is a bit on the pricey side but the color >selection is tremendous in addition to its other advantages. Polyester also doesn't stretch as much as nylon. Some kites will have to have their designs tweaked a bit to deal with the differences in the fabric. The price is high, look for retail prices around $12 a yard. This makes Icarex more expensive than all other fabrics, including Carrington. Icarex really isn't all that special. It's nice fabric, but there are several Japanese and European companies making ripstop polyester. Expect to see competition for Icarex sometime this year. The new Carrington (new to the USA anyway) is due out as well. It has better UV protection and a crisper feel due to a new coating. Expect to see new kite spars on the market as well. Several companies are in R&D on kite spars using different materials and different construction techniques. I hoped to make it to KTA to show off my new kites and to make connections with kite industry folks, but personal problems kept me in snowy New England. Oh well, maybe I'll make it to Las Vegas... -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu Network Operations Division 26 Green Street 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Subject: Re: KTA Convention and Trade Show Message-ID: <1993Jan18.183136.2081@netcom.com> From: steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 13:31:36 EST Organization: VisionAire, San Francisco, CA In article <1993Jan15.164425.3090@das.harvard.edu> sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: > >The High Performance Edge is a slick kite, or rather, it's a family of >slick kites. The high wind version has screening and vents, and the >normal wind version is screened. The ultra-light has no screening and >is larger than "standard" kites. > >The ultra-light approach is an interesting one. Rather than go to >ultra-light fabric and sticks, the kite is larger. The greater surface >area reduces the wing loading using standard materials. Ultra-light >fabric and sticks are more expensive and more fragile. I've taken the >same approach with my new ultra-light Katana II. > The Ultralights I saw HP perform with in Seaside were the larger sails, but they also had 1/2 oz. ripstop and, as I recall, Advantage 2-wrap. I don't know what they're selling--perhaps Spectra decided the the ultra-light materials were too hard to produce--but I'd be suprised if I saw HP actually competing in extremely light wind with anything but the best materials money can buy. 1/2 oz. ripstop makes a _big_ difference in light wind: and it's not just the weight. Also, if you make a kite bigger with the same spars, it's the same thing as making a smaller kite with lighter spars (I'm not saying the performance is the same, but the effective fragility is the same). [sorry I killed the attribution line here] >>afternoon. Dean makes one of the best, if not the best, dual line >>sport kite in the Pro with the big news being his use of the >>latest, greatest fabric, Icarex. > >Well, I take issue with "the best", but the Icarex Pro is a hot kite. >Expect to see a lot of them on the flying field. > I also take issue with calling the Pro "the best". I've flown the Pro, I thought to myself, "nice kite". Then somebody told me how much money they wanted for it, and I started to laugh. Sorry Dean, there are just too many kites that I'd call "nice kite" on the market right now--the days of competing against just the NSR are over. $300 is too much for a sport kite (I don't remember exactely what the Pro retails for, but I know it was consideribly more than that). Oh, well. I suppose I should expect to see a lot of Pros on the fields, too--so many people think they'll fly (ski, cycle, play basketball) better if they spend a lot of money... Dean Jordan's trying to become the Cavin Kline of kites--yawn. (Replacing one extreme viewpoint with another... welcome to usenet...) ____________ Steve Thomas steveth@rossinc.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Subject: Re: KTA Convention and Trade Show Message-ID: <1993Jan19.163804.23077@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 11:38:04 EST I wrote a response previously, but it seems to have not made it out on the net. Please forgive me if you see two responses... In article <1993Jan18.183136.2081@netcom.com>, steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) writes: >The Ultralights I saw HP perform with in Seaside were the larger sails, but >they also had 1/2 oz. ripstop and, as I recall, Advantage 2-wrap. I don't >know what they're selling--perhaps Spectra decided the the ultra-light >materials were too hard to produce--but I'd be suprised if I saw HP actually >competing in extremely light wind with anything but the best materials money >can buy. I guess this just shows a different view of what is exotic and what is normal. I just don't think of Advantage 2-wraps as being exotic. Clearwater 2-wraps are lighter and more fragile. Easton used to make what they called "1-wrap" sticks which were very fragile. You can also use Easton A/C/E arrows for really light frames. Using 2-wraps instead of 1-wraps can make a big difference in competition. 1-wraps are very fragile. A kite like the North Shore Radical with 1 wraps has a top end of around 8 mph, any more than this will likely snap the sticks. So, if the wind is blowing between 1 and 7 mph, do you go with the 1 wraps and risk breaking the sticks? >1/2 oz. ripstop makes a _big_ difference in light wind: and it's not just the >weight. If it is not the weight, then what is it? 1/2 ounce fabric is weaker, stretches more, and is more porous than 3/4 ounce fabric. There are two schools of thought with regards to using 1/2 ounce fabric. One side says that the weight savings, however small, make a difference. The other side feels that you give up too much for the small weight savings. Look at it this way, a Hawaiian Team kite has 18 square feet of area, that's two square yards. 1/2 ounce fabric saves you 1/4 ounce per square yard over 3/4 ounce fabric. The net result is a 1/2 ounce weight savings. Most delta/darts have less than 18 square feet, so the weight savings are even less. The approach that I take to light weight team kites is to use the 3/4 ounce fabric, but to use all of the other tricks (light/no reinforcing, light whiskers, spectra bridles) to lighten a kite, but to use 3/4 ounce ripstop. Team kites usually take a beating so the extra stretch resistance and strength of 3/4 ounce fabric make it worthwhile. Of course, this might all change with the availability of polyester ripstop. It's higher strength and lower stretch may make 1/2 ounce polyester the fabric of choice for light wind stunt kites. > Also, if you make a kite bigger with the same spars, it's the same >thing as making a smaller kite with lighter spars (I'm not saying the >performance is the same, but the effective fragility is the same). Almost, but not quite. The construction techniques and basic material characteristics have a large impact on the strength of any material. If you made two kites with identical wing loading, one using 2 wrap spars and the other using 1 wrap spars, the kite with the 1 wraps would be more fragile and would break more easily. >I also take issue with calling the Pro "the best". I've flown the Pro, I >thought to myself, "nice kite". Then somebody told me how much money they >wanted for it, and I started to laugh. Sorry Dean, there are just too many >kites that I'd call "nice kite" on the market right now--the days of >competing against just the NSR are over. Yes, there is fierce competition out there, at all levels of price and performance (price and performance are not necessarily related). Is the Pro worth the asking price? Obviously many people think so. Many others do not. There are many kites in the same general price range, a few that cost quite a bit more, so manufacturers feel that people will buy these expensive kites. I suspect that things will settle down and most graphite sport kites will be in the $100 to $200 range with a few kites more than that. > $300 is too much for a sport kite A lot of people agree with this. One interesting thing about the High Performance Edge is that it will retail for less than $200 (depending on the spar material). Team High Performance winning the American Kite Magazine World Cup with a $200 kite should shake up some of the high priced kite manufacturers. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu Network Operations Division 26 Green Street 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P) Subject: Re: KTA Convention and Trade Show Message-ID: <81384@hydra.gatech.EDU> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:28:14 EST Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology In article <1993Jan18.183136.2081@netcom.com> steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) writes: >In article <1993Jan15.164425.3090@das.harvard.edu> sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: >> >>Well, I take issue with "the best", but the Icarex Pro is a hot kite. I said ONE of the best. I don't think we could ever agree on the single best kite out there. Sort of like comparing Ferrarris and Lamboghinis. >Dean Jordan's trying >to become the Cavin Kline of kites--yawn. Well, somebody has too, right? As far as price goes, yeah they're expensive but what the hell. Lots of expensive kites out there. And really if you're good, the kite shouldn't make that much difference. If you want a particular characteristic, you need to do your own design and fabrication, thus the TRSK is on the boards (prototype by end of Feb! (Hope, hope, hope)) >(Replacing one extreme viewpoint with another... welcome to usenet...) > > >____________ >Steve Thomas >steveth@rossinc.com Welcome to the group Steve. You're view point is more than welcome from this corner. Might not agree...but certainly more than welcome. -- The Mad Hata "Hey, Mon....Tako Kichi!" = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =