Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 11:22:40 -1000 From: Christophe SALOME Message-Id: <42d6b0$hiq@jabba.fdn.org> Organization: French Data Network - Association loi 1901 - Paris - France Subject: Re: Fighter kite line tm100341@merlin.si.uqam.ca (LAVERDURE FRANCOIS) wrote: > For a real fighter, only the Manjha is the good line for flying. But be careful with your fingers and your ears. I know someone who had his ear cut by a line of manjha during a fight... :-) I'll send you other details about our lines here in France. Christophe SALOME >From the Manjha Club International. (33-1) 46 21 16 59 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 04:26:29 -1000 From: tm100341@merlin.si.uqam.ca (LAVERDURE FRANCOIS) Message-Id: <4SG4B1QV@news.uqam.ca> Organization: Universite du Quebec a Montreal Subject: Fighter kite line Hi! I would like to know what type of line the participants of rec.kites use when flying indian fighter kites? Which line doesn't burn fingers... Francois Laverdure tm100341@merlin.si.uqam.ca = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 08:47:54 -1000 From: coreykite@aol.com (Coreykite) Message-Id: <42i60q$85b@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Subject: Re: Fighter kite line Re: What line to use... Manja is used only at the top of the line, not full length. If using a synthetic line (dacron) wear a pair of light cotton gloves to prevent line burns. Best is cotton/linen lines. Fighters fly best in light winds and 6-14 lb. line has little stretch at that pressure. My personal favorite is a three stand twisted linen line from Ireland. aoxomoxoa coreykite@aol.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 06:49:54 -1000 From: mss@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <199509051649.MAA25923@endor.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Fighter kite line From: allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au (Allan Charlton) Subject: Re: Fighter kite line Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 07:51:06 +1000 (EST) Francois wanted to know what line to use on a fighter. Well, I have started flying my fighters, but I don't fight them for safety reasons. Manja is dangerous stuff, and I don't want to be responsible for some kid cutting himself on my line. So I don't fight. I do fly patterns - or rather, I *try* to fly patterns :-) The same sort of basic patterns that stunt pilots fly. Flying patterns with a fighter calls for a maximum of control, and that means no-stretch line. I fly 30 lb test Spectra, and it makes a big difference. It has a very small cross-section, so the wind doesn't affect it much. And it's very light, so its weight doesn't have much influence on the performance of the kite. And it's extraordinarily responsive. If you decide to try Spectra on your fighter, keep your line clear of other kite lines, because they will cut you down in an instant. Oh, one other thing: so far, I have no burns, but thin Spectra can cut fingers if it pulls too hard :-) Allan allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 11:31:54 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: Fighter kite line tm100341@merlin.si.uqam.ca (LAVERDURE FRANCOIS) writes: >Hi! I would like to know what type of line the participants of rec.kites >use when flying indian fighter kites? Which line doesn't burn fingers... Cotton. I understand that manja is usualy made with ground glass, flour and water, but at Bristol, I saw that Stafford had got himself a small number of industrial diamond grinding wheels, with a view to breaking them down to` make even sharper line... Andrew -- New to rec.kites? START HERE! | To: www@kfs.org send an email message like this->| Subject: service /-\ () >< () |\/| () >< () /-\ | http://www.kfs.org/kites/welcome/index.html Leave the kite jumping to the teddy bears = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:23:36 -1000 From: drkyte@megaweb.com (Joe Schiros) Message-Id: <42ji5e$4rj@news-e1a.megaweb.com> Organization: Megaweb Subject: Re: Fighter kite line In article <4SG4B1QV@news.uqam.ca> LAVERDURE FRANCOIS wrote: >Hi! I would like to know what type of line the participants > of rec.kites >use when flying indian fighter kites? Which line doesn't > burn fingers... > Try 100otton thread with glace finish. The Into the Wind Catalog has some that is quite nice. Also, look at 100otton hand quilting thread. ------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Kyte ... Ashes of laughter ... aka Joe Schiros ------------------------------------------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 22:02:53 -1000 From: Craig Fisher Message-Id: <810374573.17031@pc1.uk.phase.com> Organization: Phase Devices Ltd. Subject: Re: Fighter kite line tm100341@merlin.si.uqam.ca (LAVERDURE FRANCOIS) wrote: >Hi! I would like to know what type of line the participants of rec.kites >use when flying indian fighter kites? Which line doesn't burn fingers... I've only just started flying Indian Fighter/Fun* (*delete as applicable) kites. I bought 250 Metres of Indian Cotton from Shirley of The Highwaymen at Portsmouth. I found it doesn't burn anywhere near as much as the synthetic lines I use on my other single line kites, and it's stretch is quite low too. -Craig = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:30:24 -1000 From: drkyte@megaweb.com (Joe Schiros) Message-Id: <42jii7$4t8@news-e1a.megaweb.com> Organization: Megaweb Subject: Re: Fighter kite line In article (Allan Charlton) wrote: >Well, I have started flying my fighters, but I don't fight > them for safety >reasons. Manja is dangerous stuff, and I don't want to be > responsible for >some kid cutting himself on my line. Good for you. BTW, people get killed by that stuff, too. ------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Kyte ... Ashes of laughter ... aka Joe Schiros ------------------------------------------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:06:35 -1000 From: Christophe SALOME Message-Id: <42l2gr$sar@jabba.fdn.org> Organization: French Data Network - Association loi 1901 - Paris - France Subject: Re: Fighter kite line You can also try fishing line of nylon. It's cheap, and enough resistant. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 14:57:08 -1000 From: othasuay@terranet.ab.ca (Frank Lee) Message-Id: <42lg14$7mg@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> Organization: I & I Services Subject: Re: Fighter kite line My wife and I use waxed linen line that was purchased from "Into The Wind". Works well for those sliding payouts as your kite is darting nose first for the ground, that then allows you to recover and gain altitude again. No burns or cuts at all. frank othasuay@terranet.ab.ca = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 17:48:29 -1000 From: griebeno@athena.mit.edu (Kai Griebenow) Message-Id: <42lq2d$34j@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Subject: Re: Fighter kite line For heavens sake NOT fishing line. I tried that. I fished myself because I couldn't see all that stuff on the ground - a constant struggle. Better for cabaret though :-). People have lots to laugh when you fly fighters with fishing line. People in the Netherlands use a cheap black nylon stuff. Stretches like crazy, is visible enough and I don't know where you can get it (oh what a help, I know). If you know a guy named Herman in the Netherlands who is on pretty much all kite festivals there, ask him, He has this stuff. He also imports Fighter Kites from Indonesia, where he was born. 1$ per kite or so I payed (if I payed). Willi Koch has his adress I think. I normally use the stuff coming from India (on the spools you can buy at Into the Wind or Kites of Boston). Isn't very strong though. Would be great for fights though if everyone would have to use that stuff. The fights would really win great intensity because the cut would be quick and deadly. Personally I think (when I could get it) I would like to have a thin hemp line for fights.That stuffis really resistant. So, enough of this. But NO fishing line ;-). Happy Kiting Kai Griebenow griebeno@mit.edu ********************************************************* * * * Want to see nice kites? * * Try: http://web.mit.edu/griebeno/www/kites.html * * * ********************************************************* - Everything flies - it's just a question of the bridle - (Kai - before his Mouseman Kite crashed serveral times) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 20:23:30 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: Fighter kite line drkyte@megaweb.com (Joe Schiros) writes: >>Manja is dangerous stuff, and I don't want to be >> responsible for >>some kid cutting himself on my line. > >Good for you. BTW, people get killed by that stuff, too. Does anyone have documented case of any non-flier getting hurt by Manja in the West. There is an urban legend of a motor bike rider getting beheaded, but if this is true, it is likely to be in india, where the manja gets dumped miles away, across town. It doesn't seem to fit with the Western fighting model. Do we have a *real* problem here? Andrew -- New to rec.kites? START HERE! | To: www@kfs.org send an email message like this->| Subject: service /-\ () >< () |\/| () >< () /-\ | http://www.kfs.org/kites/welcome/index.html Leave the kite jumping to the teddy bears = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 03:40:11 -1000 From: drkyte@megaweb.com (Joe Schiros) Message-Id: <42nalf$86d@news-e1a.megaweb.com> Organization: Megaweb Subject: Re: Fighter kite line In article Andrew Beattie wrote: >There is an urban legend of a motor bike rider getting > beheaded, but if this >is true, it is likely to be in india, where the manja gets > dumped miles away, >across town. It doesn't seem to fit with the Western > fighting model. > >Do we have a *real* problem here? Excuse me, the biker had his neck slashed in India and a few in Brazil. No people killed in civilized countries yet, So, I guess it's not a real problem. BTW, Andrew, let's not get into this again. You're allowed one nasty reply, then let's get on with it. ------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Kyte ... Ashes of laughter ... aka Joe Schiros ------------------------------------------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 20:17:03 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: Fighter kite line drkyte@megaweb.com (Joe Schiros) writes: >No people killed in civilized countries yet, So, I guess it's >not a real problem. Oops! I did not intend to slight the people of India. It was more an obvservation of a different style of flying. In India, they tend to fly in towns, leaving long lengths of manja cut and draping across roads between building, where I can see the risk as being real. Here in the west, the tendancy seems to be to fight *much* closer, leaving lines mostly a) in the park and b) retrieved by the flier (who generaly retrieves both kite and line) So the question remains (and I don't ask it agressively): Are people actualy getting hurt by Manja in the west? And the implied question: Can we reduce the risk to a reasonable level by insisting that fliers fly at a length that can be retrieved and that they do retrieve their manja? Andrew -- New to rec.kites? START HERE! | To: www@kfs.org send an email message like this->| Subject: service /-\ () >< () |\/| () >< () /-\ | http://www.kfs.org/kites/welcome/index.html Leave the kite jumping to the teddy bears = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 17:42:32 -1000 From: drkyte@megaweb.com (Joe Schiros) Message-Id: <42rgd1$t0b@news-e1a.megaweb.com> Organization: Megaweb Subject: Re: Fighter kite line In article Andrew Beattie wrote: >So the question remains (and I don't ask it agressively): > Are people actualy getting hurt by Manja in the west? Not that I know of. > And the implied question: >Can we reduce the risk to a reasonable level by insisting >that fliers fly at a length that can be retrieved and that >they do retrieve their manja? Yeah, probably. I think it's more trouble than it's worth. To me the greatest danger is someone being hurt by a kite. The general public think of kites as toys, at least here in the States. If they start perceiving them as killing machines, they'd swat us like flys. Hell, if the bleeding hearts find out some toy can some how harm a child, no matter how unlikely, they go nuts. Not to mention the shysters. I have flown with cutting line and might again if the circumstances were right. I am mainly against spreading the practice, especially to newbies. If that sounds elitist, tough. I think cutting line is a potential danger and should only be used under carefully controlled conditions. Or to put it another way, I own firearms. I like to target shoot. I don't encourage people to get and shoot firearms. I especially wouldn't if I thought they didn't know the dangers. The question is probably moot, anyways. I can assure you that the use of cutting line could never become a big problem. ------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Kyte ... Ashes of laughter ... aka Joe Schiros ------------------------------------------------------------- = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 11:46:39 -1000 From: hfoao033@huey.csun.edu (gina hsiung) Message-Id: <42np7v$f5r@dewey.csun.edu> Organization: California State University, Northridge Subject: Re: Fighter kite line Andrew Beattie (andrew@tug.com) wrote: > Does anyone have documented case of any non-flier getting hurt by Manja > in the West. ...[stuff deleted] > Do we have a *real* problem here? The only thing I can add to this is that I've been told by Johnny and Basir (who use cutting line *alot*) that they've seen bloody hands & fingers on the flyers; and Basir knows one Afghani fighter who has a scar along the side of his nose from manja (he wasn't looking where he was going). But that's it! In order for the manja to be dangerous it has to be stretched-out tight, usually when attached to a kite with lots of pull. Once the line is cut, the line becomes slack as the kite gracefully floats to the ground. Of course, when Johhny and Basir are flying with manja, they are careful of where they fly and watch out for any people (or kites) around them. The only deaths heard about occur in India where the fighters fall off the roofs during a fight. They are so involved in the fight, they don't pay attention to their footing. Anyone else have any info? -=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=- Gina Hsiung North Library Annex email: ghsiung@huey.csun.edu Technical Services Dept. Phone: 818-885-2265 Calif. State Univ, Northridge FAX: 818-885-4928 Northridge, CA 91330-8328 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 06:39:08 -1000 From: griebeno@athena.mit.edu (Kai Griebenow) Message-Id: <431onc$61p@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Subject: Re: Fighter kite line Hi, two questions: 1) Peter Lee, are you on-line and if so how often? 2) Where can I get Black Death line at the best price? Thanks Happy Kiting Kai Griebenow griebeno@mit.edu ********************************************************* * * * Want to see nice kites? * * Try: http://web.mit.edu/griebeno/www/kites.html * * * ********************************************************* - Everything flies - it's just a question of the bridle - (Kai - before his Mouseman Kite crashed serveral times) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:30:43 -1000 From: skrishnan@mmm.com (S.Krishnan) Message-Id: <434qlj$kl@dawn.mmm.com> Organization: mmm Subject: Re: Fighter kite line During the late '60, there was one woman (pillion rider) on a motor scooter whose neck was sliced by the manja line stretched across the road by a cut kite in the city of Madras, India. There is now a ban on kite flying within the city limits of this city, and perhaps in other cities in India as well. Since the loose manja has plenty of chance to get entangled in things in a city-scape, it can stretch taut and cause damage. As someone else mentioned in a different chain of letters, we in the open spaces can fly without causing any such damage, especially when most of use no abrasive on the string and fight only with mutual consent (and with an eye toward immediately recovering the cut kite ). = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:07:24 -1000 From: mss@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <199509131807.OAA21379@endor.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Fighter Kite line From: allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au (Allan Charlton) Subject: Re: Fighter Kite line Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 11:24:07 +1000 (EST) Andrew asked: >Are people actually getting hurt by Manja in the West? and Joe Schiros said: >Not that I know of. At the Festival of the Winds we were lucky enough to have a Malaysian master showing his skills with the Wau Bulan. (He was flying on monofilament nylon, so I gave him a reel of braided nylon. Not as good as Dacron, but it was what I had). I asked Kasmin about glass line in Malaysia and he said that they don't use it. Kasmin explained that about ten years ago "glason" was popular in Malaysia, in spite of many minor accidents. These accidents involved a kite falling to earth, and being picked up by somebody; the line appears be caught on something, and he pulls at it. In fact, the line was in somebody's hand, and causes a nasty cut. Those cuts varied in severity between Band-Aid class and near-amputation. Then there was an accident when a motorcyclist suffered a severe cut to his throat (familiar story). No, he didn't die. The Mayaysian Government legislated against the use of cutting line as a result. In the light of that experience, I choose to avoid glason, or "manja" as it is more commonly known. I don't see the need to wait for injuries in the West before I make my decision. Allan Charlton allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 07:29:06 -1000 From: mss@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <199509131729.NAA20351@endor.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Office of Information Technology Subject: Re: Fighter kite line From: coreykite@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 14:29:53 -0400 Posted-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 14:29:53 -0400 Received-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 14:29:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Fighter kite line X-Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Re: What line to use... Manja is used only at the top of the line, not full length. If using a synthetic line (dacron) wear a pair of light cotton gloves to prevent line burns. Best is cotton/linen lines. Fighters fly best in light winds and 6-14 lb. line has little stretch at that pressure. My personal favorite is a three stand twisted linen line from Ireland. aoxomoxoa coreykite@aol.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:12:26 -1000 From: cfbd@southern.co.nz (Colin Douthwaite) Message-Id: <43ctoa$f5c@southern.co.nz> Organization: Southern InterNet Services Subject: Re: Fighter Kite line Marty Sasaki (mss@das.harvard.edu) wrote: : From: allanc@syacus.acus.oz.au (Allan Charlton) : Subject: Re: Fighter Kite line : To: kites@das.harvard.edu : Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 11:24:07 +1000 (EST) : : Andrew asked: : >Are people actually getting hurt by Manja in the West? : : and Joe Schiros said: : >Not that I know of. : : At the Festival of the Winds we were lucky enough to have a Malaysian : master showing his skills with the Wau Bulan. (He was flying on : monofilament nylon, so I gave him a reel of braided nylon. Not as good : as Dacron, but it was what I had). I asked Kasmin about glass line in : Malaysia and he said that they don't use it. You did well to move him away from using the nylon monofil. At the 1994 One Sky One World, someone flew a single-line Delta on nylon monofil alongside Des Pitfield's Peter Lynn Black Octopus in North Hagley park. The inevitable occurred and in a very few seconds the monofil almost severed one of the Octopus's thick cables. Only some swift and dramatic action by Des and helpers saved the Octopus from breaking loose and disappearing into Christchurch City. The flier concerned was a regular flier who, hopefully, has now abandoned nylon monofilament line - at least at organised flying events. BTW I know someone who flies on Dental Floss. :-) Bye, = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =